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20131202
20131210
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a property here. >> what has been the relationship of his image to the a.n.c., the african national congress. >> as before, he is definitely the biggest name, the biggest figure to come out of the a.n.c. he was the one who in the 40's formed the a.n.c. youth league. he then radicalized the a.n.c. and convinced the a.n.c. to pursue a program of sabotage against the apartheid government. he has always been the person everyone looks to. in his later years, he has faded. he has not had the presence to lead the organization anymore, but he has always been the point of reference. he has always been the one anyone would refer to if they the moral high ground, or if they wanted to talk about the direction of the country. >> now, is there a divide we need to understand when we think about south africa that still exists economically as well as educationally and socially? >> there has been a huge divide in south africa. south africa remains a very unequal society. white south africans on average earn six times more than the average black south africans. there is a huge racial component to all of this.
, which was always the goal of the anc. and whether one is from nigeria or tanzania or closer to home, mozambique, across africa people rallied behind the anc in that struggle. i think president mandela stood for freedom, and he now stands for integrity and perseverance. the continent needs to move towards that in terms of the next phase of the struggle, which is political freedom has been achieved now. economic freedom is necessary. >> speak a little about your own experience in relation to the perspective of nelson mandela, particularly when it comes to nonviolent protest, and in violence in africa, as well is the work you have done combating aids in africa. >> i really respect president mandela, again, because of his conviction. he was a person who started as he did, in terms of nonviolent struggle against apartheid regime, and at some point he realized the level of repression of the national party required a more robust response, which was moving towards arms struggle. leader likefound a erk who could negotiate with the national party that was now ready after the mass demonstratio
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